Hi, welcome to Criminal Minds Wiki! Thanks for your edit to the Spree Killer page.
"Extinction of Islam"? Edit
You have a lot of nerve to make fun of that after what happened in Norway last week. By the way, you're not a "Criminal Minds Character"; that category is for characters on the show (it was made before CM:SB got its own wiki). --Jpx400 20:14, July 27, 2011 (UTC)
With the exception of using a show template (which automatically categorizes the user as the template dictates), everyone is free to put whatever they want on their personal page, as long as that content isn't pornographic. As has been said before, 'what is offensive to you is offensive to you'... Bottom line, if something offends you, that's your problem. Users or admins are not allowed to edit user pages that don't belong to them. Any further attempts to censor or otherwise forcefully suppress the opinions of other will result in loss of editing rights. ---Sec_1971 TALK (CM Wiki Admin)
First and last time I explain this:
- You want to use a template, this is the one for users.
- Have you considered that I may sound like someone that know how terrorism is, the one that uses the Islamic religion as the excuse and the one that comes from the exact opposite end of the spectrum? And you know what, both are exactly the same and neither has nothing to do with religion, politics and least of all, with the well-being of the people. - Mvpl TALK (CM Wiki Admin)
Re: Harris and Klebold Edit
I read "your" article about Harris and Klebold. Almost all of it is a complete ripoff of Wikipedia's article about the Columbine High massacre and that is NOT how we roll on this wiki. It's really bad sport against those of us who put some real effort into writing articles. We had another guy here, LuvdaLord4eva, who did the same thing a while back. He copied Wikipedia's article about Bruce George Peter Lee, aka Peter Dinsdale, and pasted it here. I then wrote a whole new original article in its place. If you want to contribute to the Real Criminals section here, that's great. But if you do, put some effort into it. --Jpx400 22:45, August 22, 2011 (UTC)
I apologize if I sounded crabby, but that massacre section was longer than some whole articles I've written. And those articles included personal backgrounds, M.O., as detailed victim lists as I could find, sources, sometimes profiles, On Criminal Minds sections, etc. And the thing is, you DID just copy it. --Jpx400 23:09, August 22, 2011 (UTC)
Re: Harris and Klebold sources Edit
Copied from the Harris and Klebold talk page
One thing, Darth (or Cole, whichever you prefer). It would be good if you listed your sources when you add information to a Real Criminal article. I Googled your latest entries with the quotes from Harris' journal and found them in a fanfic short story you've written on Fanfiction.net. If you read them somewhere else, please list that source. --Jpx400 17:51, September 28, 2011 (UTC)
Would a reply be too much to ask for? --Jpx400 17:07, October 2, 2011 (UTC)
Thanks for answering. Now then, where did you get those statements from? Because a fanfic story you yourself have written is not a good source. --Jpx400 20:46, October 2, 2011 (UTC)
Thanks. Sorry I reacted like that, but I take the Real Criminal articles seriously. Good choice of sources, by the way. --Jpx400 21:18, October 2, 2011 (UTC)
Randall Garner Edit
If you think that the motives behind Randall Garner's actions should be better explained or more info added, do it in his article, not creating random articles completely separated from it. - Mvpl TALK (CM Wiki Admin)
Re: School Shooters Edit
Kinkel was subdued, Woodham was caught while on his way to do another shooting, Ryan McDonald (according to some quick Internet searches) was a victim and his shooter only shot him, Eric Hainstock's shooting was also a single murder, according to some witnesses Pennington meant to kill himself, Barry Dale Loukaitis was subdued, and Michael Carneal reportedly asked to be killed. Most of the well-known school shooters do, like Seung-Hui Cho, Harris and Klebold and Jeff Weise. But you do have a point. According to Wikipedia's list of American school shootings, most of those resulted in less than three deaths or, in fortunate cases, none at all. --Jpx400 21:37, October 13, 2011 (UTC)
I took a look at your sandbox about McVeigh. Need I remind you that we don't copy articles straight out of Wikipedia here? --Jpx400 08:43, October 22, 2011 (UTC)
And then you published it as an article with essentially the same text. There were almost no changes. And by the way, copying something from Wikipedia and then making a few tweaks basically counts as just copying it. It takes more than just a new mugshot and dividing into more sections. --Jpx400 00:54, October 23, 2011 (UTC)
Re: Prolific Edit
When you're talking about serial killers, it means they've killed a lot of people. --Jpx400 07:38, October 24, 2011 (UTC)
Re: Sorry Edit
Look, I have Asperger's Syndrome too, but it's no excuse for copying whole articles verbatimly from another source. I get it if you did it once when you were new to this wiki, but ignoring it the second time you write a Real Criminal article is just not good. I could simply copy sections from other sites too, but I don't because I think the people who were killed by the guys I usually write about deserve more than that. --Jpx400 19:41, October 25, 2011 (UTC)
Re: McVeigh an Irishman? Edit
He was born in the state of New York, so technically speaking, he can't be called "Irish-American". I did some internet searches and found that, according to Examiner.com in a 2009 article, McVeigh's family was Irish Catholic, so I guess it's safe to assume that he is of Irish descent. If that's important. --Jpx400 18:38, October 27, 2011 (UTC)
Re: Harris and Klebold Profile Edit
The Profile section of the Harris and Klebold article needs some slimming down and/or summarizing. Seriously, it's twice as long than some of the longer Profile sections of any other page on this wiki. Since you're well-informed about the case, I was wondering if you'd like to do it. --Jpx400 22:03, November 24, 2011 (UTC)
I've gotten a warning from Wikia. At the start of the week, they had a problem and as a result random edits didn't got saved, even if it seemed like they had. Wanted to give you a heads up, just in case some of yours were affected. - Mvpl TALK (CM Wiki Admin) 15:21, December 18, 2011 (UTC)
Ref.: "I think the criminals in this page should be put in all categories that they fit into."
Portals have not exactly that purpose, categorize, but to make easy for visitors to find the articles, thus why Criminals are only in the list of their principal category even if they could fit in several at once - Mvpl TALK (CM Wiki Admin) 20:00, December 31, 2011 (UTC)
In my book is OBVIOUS you know how to do things right, and more important, you know how to observe how things are done, learn and correct your mistakes. Don't demean yourself! ;-) - Mvpl TALK (CM Wiki Admin) 16:31, January 22, 2012 (UTC)
- Important! The pics you're using are too small, and it's possible to get bigger and better ones of all you've posted in your articles. Two options: change them for better ones or left the none.jpg image and I'll get to it as real life allows me (that file makes easy for me to know which articles need images).
- Another important issue: the victims deserve more respect and attention than the monsters; I know the articles must be based on the monsters, but unless the victims are alive still or it's impossible to find their photos, the victims photos MUST BE on the article (for how it's done, check any article that has them already) - Mvpl TALK (CM Wiki Admin) 22:03, January 24, 2012 (UTC)
Heidnik and List SourcesEdit
Hey Darth, would you mind listing the sources you got your information for your Gary Heidnik page, please? As for the sources you listed for your John List page (or more like source), I think you're gonna need more than just Wikipedia as a source of information. I don't know if you're required to use a minimum of two sources, but judging by what I've seen on other Real People articles, I like to think so.
Besides, sometimes Wikipedia offers a page that doesn't have much information. For example, when I created my Richard Angelo article, the Wikipedia article for him was a bit too short and didn't offer much information about his crimes and incarceration. It's lucky Wikipedia's Heidnik and List pages were thoroughly detailed. You can still rely on Wikipedia, but I'm warning you, to stay safe and avoid creating a page that doesn't provide much information because it's based on Wikipedia and Wikipedia only, I recommend using at least one more website as a source. I'd especially recommend TruTv.com's Crime Library. Its articles provide a crapload of reliable information. UnSub-Zero 23:34, January 23, 2012 (UTC)
- I agree. When I write my Real Criminal articles, I usually try to use at least three sources, including Wikipedia and TruTV. --Jpx400 23:45, January 23, 2012 (UTC)
- Okay. If you got your information from that book, Darth, then I recommend you put it in the Sources section of your Heidnik and List pages. Or either one; it depends if the book contributed to only one of the pages instead of both. UnSub-Zero 02:37, January 24, 2012 (UTC)
Heidnik Sources and Barton RipoffEdit
Hey Darth, I need to tell you two things:
- You still haven't put up your sources for your Gary Heidnik article. Please do so as soon as possible.
- I'm not sure if you noticed it, but Jpx400 and I have left messages on the Mark Barton talk page about the article being essentially a ripoff of Wikipedia's article of him. Read it for more information, and please write a response for us, 'cause I'm waiting for one. Not sure if Jpx400 is also waiting, but I like to think so.
Thanks! UnSub-Zero 00:24, February 10, 2012 (UTC)
Mass Murderer TalkEdit
Okay Darth, I know your profile says you're an expert on mass murderers and that's good to know, it really does. However, I've been examining all of those category-battles you've been having with the rest of us, the whole he/she-killed-4-people-therefore-making-him/her-a-mass-murderer followed by a deletion of your edit thing, and I have concluded that you seem to be missing at least one of the points on what makes someone a mass murderer. Look, I'm sorry if that offends you, I really am, and I know I could be getting into trouble for this, but this has been going on for a while and it's starting to frustrate us. Again, sorry.
Now, because I'm nice and I don't want to stir trouble, I won't tell you the things you seem to be missing (if there is any). Instead, I'll tell you of the popular opinion of what makes someone a spree killer or a mass murderer on this Wikia:
- Yes, mass murderers kill 4 people at one place at one time. That's for sure. But when it says "at one place", then it LITERALLY means "at one place". The mass murderer mustn't be active anywhere else. Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, for example. They committed their killings at Columbine High only, and they claimed an amount of lives over three times the mininum limit. This makes them mass murderers. But let's say that their diversion bomb detonated completely and there were some people around it when it blew up. If the bomb claimed lives, then that means Harris and Klebold are instead spree killers because they claimed lives in more than one location. Thank goodness the diversion bomb only partially detonated without anyone getting injured.
- When a serial killer devolves and starts committing mass murder, like Ronald Boyd and James Thomas, then they are instead spree killers because their murders prior to the incidents make them active in multiple locations. It doesn't matter if the massacres take the lives of 4 or more people. That's my opinion of what makes a serial-turned-spree killer. And that reminds me of something: because of the aforementioned, some to most of the Criminals listed in the Attempted Mass Murderers category page are incorrectly listed on there. Since they attempted a mass murder, but were serial killers and therefore active in multiple locations, then they should be Budding Spree Killers instead.
- There are instances where serial killers kill 4 or more people at once, especially family annihilators such as Karl Arnold and Vincent Stiles. This doesn't make them mass murderers because they targeted the victims. That could make them spree killers, but since there were cooling-off periods between all incidents, then that makes them serial killers.
- However, criminals such as Tommy Wheeler and Chad Brown are listed as mass murderers even though they were active at more than one location, without any hint of disagreement from us. I think the reason for that is that they used biological weapons to kill their victims: if they don't kill the victims personally with things like a gun or a knife, like most unsubs would, then I guess that makes them mass murderers (of course, if they killed 4 or more people, which Tommy and Chad did). Since there have been no edits removing the mass murderer listing from them, then I assume that they're correctly listed as such.
- You once suggested splitting the Rampage Killer page into two different pages: Spree Killer and Mass Murderer. All because of their differences in definition and the fact that Wikipedia has two individual articles. While you do have a point about the whole splitting thing, I will have to say that on this Wikia it won't happen because while they are indefinitely different in many ways, we list them as the same thing because both involve the massacring of innocent lives. The only way we can list them as only one of them rather than the other is if the criminal is active in more than one location or not.
Now Darth, please don't misinterpret this as a hate message, because this is not what it is. And if it looks like it, then it was not my intention to write such. But I have been digitally clashing with you over if a certain criminal is a mass murderer or not, and so has Mvpl and Jpx400, and I know for sure that Mvpl is pretty upset about it at this point. I myself find it a bit irritating. But I just want you to know that you are messing ("messing" is not the word I wanted, but I couldn't think of anything else) with a popular classification rule and you need to know what makes someone a mass murderer on this Wikia. While I might get into trouble for sending you this message (exactly why I will is unclear to me, but I have a gut feeling about it), I will kindly accept whatever punishment will possibly come my way. And I also want to sincerely apologize if this message delivers a shattering blow to your soul.
It's just that...this whole category-battle can't go on forever, and it's getting frustrating. I'm really sorry. UnSub-Zero 02:47, February 19, 2012 (UTC)
- If you say so. Bring it on. :( UnSub-Zero 03:05, February 19, 2012 (UTC)
Well, since you still want to believe that Spree Killers and Mass Murderers are different pathologies, then it's obvious that this category-battle's gonna continue. So, yeah.
Oh, and when you want me to refer to you as "Lord Kieduss" or "my Lord", then that's not gonna happen. This is not Star Wars. UnSub-Zero 03:24, February 19, 2012 (UTC)
- Well, you seem to take all of this quite well. That sounds a bit redeeming. UnSub-Zero 03:54, February 19, 2012 (UTC)
One Last TryEdit
Darth, you are not listening to me, or the others. Just because a criminal kills 4 or more people at one place doesn't immediately make him a mass murderer! There are other rules the criminal must carry out if he/she is to become a mass murderer! But obviously, you just don't seem to care. You freakin' want everyone to be a mass murderer or attempted mass murderer just because they killed or attempted to kill 4 or more people at one place at one time. Why else did you rename the "Spree Killer" page "Mass Murderer" in a pointless edit?
It's really frustrating for me and the other users to have to delete edits made by you that are just effing wrong. For once, consider the feelings of others before you make your edits. If your edit isn't reverted, then that means it's okay and you don't have to worry about it in the future. But if an edit of yours is reverted, then BACK OFF, because it's wrong!
Look, every time I see that you made a wrong edit, I start dropping cuss bombs and I hit whatever I can and I actually FREAKIN' CRY! I am a guy and your edits are making me CRY! It's so frustrating to have to commit to a pattern of seeing edits by you that are wrong, revert those edits, see that you put those edits back in, and me reverting those edits AGAIN! AND AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN! SO FRUSTRATING!
Look, I have Asperger's, and so do you, and it seems really wrong to start raging against a guy that shares a common aspect with me. But I want to get on the right track with you. If you don't like the fact that a criminal isn't a mass murderer even though he killed 4 or more people, and yet, no one seems to listen to you, then deal with it some other way. But to put your edits back in just won't work. I will keep reverting them. And I must tell you, I'm fed up with it.
Just remember Darth, I'm crying over this. I'm frustrated over this. I'm sent over the edge because of this. Please consider this. And if you don't, you're gonna make a mortal enemy out of me.
UnSub-Zero 06:16, February 26, 2012 (UTC)
I'm gonna put my decision on whether to accept the deal or not on hold until you tell your belief of Mass Murderers belonging to other pathologies to Mvpl and/or Jpx400, because on this Wikia, that's not how we roll. However, IF they allow you to proceed, then I'll accept the deal. UnSub-Zero 23:01, February 29, 2012 (UTC)
Re: Rampage Killer Edit
I know about the "feud" you two have been having, and I think it's getting ridiculous. I also strongly disagree with the idea that everything about mass murderers should be "left" to you alone. The whole point of a wiki is that it's collaborative and that anyone can join in and edit. Furthermore, I disagree with the way you label some criminals, real and on Criminal Minds, as "mass murderers" simply because they kill four people or more in one go. One thing you don't take into account is that those people, such as BTK, Richard Chase and Carl Panzram, either had killed people before the event(s) and/or killed more people afterwards with cooling-off periods of different lengths inbetween, making them serial killers. Personally, I think one key criteria of a mass murderer (I'm thinking of guys like Harris and Klebold and George Hennard) is that they set out to kill as many as they possibly can in one single location and in one "attack". While they may move around within the single location they've chosen as target while killing, they don't usually try to get away with it, but just either commit suicide or, in few cases, are caught. Also, even if they do plan to kill four people or more, such as in the case of Karl Arnold, it doesn't make them a mass murderer in the sense the term refers to when you talk about rampage killers, since they do so in a series of such attacks in different locations and with cooling-off periods (sometimes short, but still), making them serial killers. And guys like Karl Arnold, Trevor Mills and BTK actually make an effort to get away with their crimes while mass murderers don't give a damn but plan to end it all there and then. So, in short, there is more to the term "mass murderer" than their body count. BTW, trying to claim the sole right to work on "mass murderers" is just arrogant and goes against the whole "anyone can edit" thing about Wikia. --Jpx400 23:20, March 3, 2012 (UTC)
- Sorry, but NO! I've been trying to avoid having to explain myself and my point of view because I wasn't feeling kind, nor able to do so without anger. But this "feud" ends here and now.
- Read carefully what Jpx400 is explaining to you and heed his advice, because if I or anyone of the other veteran editors take away the Mass Murder category from an article and you put it back, I may be VERY tempted to block you for some time as I may think you need that time to read and reread and understand what everybody is saying once and again apparently for naught. Just so there is no misunderstanding whatsoever, I don't think you're an expert on that particular theme, but I think that you fail to really understand what it really means - Mvpl TALK (CM Wiki Admin) 23:40, March 3, 2012 (UTC)
- Darth, please don't take all of this personally. I mean, I agree with you on what you say about Mass Murderers, but remember, I stick with the popular opinion because I don't wanna get under anyone's noses. If you still don't like what we say, just don't continue to ignore us and continue this feud of ours. Do something else to vent out your disapproval. You're a good lad, but you seem to be stirring up trouble with this feud. To make things fair, I think I myself have been stirring up trouble as well, continuously fighting with you. I hope today's the day we all get along. UnSub-Zero 07:21, March 4, 2012 (UTC)
Dr. Robert HareEdit
Hey! Darth, do you know where you found Dr. Robert Hare's list of hallmarks of psychopathy in juveniles based on Eric Harris? Because I don't recall seeing it anywhere. If it's found on a separate website, then I suggest you list it in the Sources section for the Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold article. Thanks! :) UnSub-Zero 18:42, April 5, 2012 (UTC)
- Okay, thanks!
- And I'm sorry, but did you just call me a moron? I found that highly offensive, mostly due to the fact that I don't own or haven't read the book. UnSub-Zero 16:58, April 6, 2012 (UTC)
- In the words of Jpx400, is a reply too much to ask for? UnSub-Zero 03:32, April 11, 2012 (UTC)
- Thanks for apologizing. It's all cool.
- And how exactly am I annoying you? If this is about the whole mass murderer thing, it's not my fault. I was just following the rules. UnSub-Zero 18:54, April 11, 2012 (UTC)
Darth, did you copy my sandbox and use it to create the Andrew Kehoe page? Because I recognize that work from anywhere and it was definitely not yours. It's okay if you did; my personal life gave me little hope in completing that sandbox. But next time you do something like that, please tell me so I don't feel plagiarized or anything.
And I have to warn you: that sandbox was a bit incomplete. UnSub-Zero 19:33, April 20, 2012 (UTC)
Hey, that is not okay! You don't go copying stuff from each others' sandboxes without the other's permission. --Jpx400 20:12, April 20, 2012 (UTC)
Izzy Rogers Edit
I don't care if she killed one or a hundred people inside that bank, or outside, that same day. She had her reasons to do it, was calculated with a goal in mind every single time. The world isn't black and white, and that's never a bigger true than when analyzing human behavior. Don't get stuck on a tiny detail and try to force the matter just because at first glance it seems to apply - Mvpl TALK (CM Wiki Admin) 22:35, May 17, 2012 (UTC)
- Darth, PLEASE try to listen to Mvpl. There are specific rules for this Wikia, and classifying Izzy Rogers as a spree killer despite the fact that she had specific goals for those killings in mind isn't one of 'em. A spree killer isn't a spree killer if there are specific goals in mind. UnSub-Zero 03:10, May 18, 2012 (UTC)
I know what you mean by that. Sometimes I'm a bit angry that the world always has to be imperfect with all of this killing and stuff. Bad news keeps coming in all the time. Latest I've heard was some wacko in Toronto who killed one and injured seven at a shopping mall two days ago. It's a good thing I haven't heard any increase in the body count yet.
Anyway, I admit the world we live in kinda sucks, but I think it's more better if we look at the positive sides of it all. We've got our family and friends, we could've gone through worse in our lives (unless you already did, which I pity you if such a thing happened), and (this one's gonna be a bit strange) without all of those negative events, then people won't learn to act against similar occurrences in the future and we might have something worse. For example, if 9/11 didn't happen, then we wouldn't know how to prevent more terrorist attacks in the future. I know it sounds like I'm more in support of the terrorists, but I am NOT. You just gotta think, without 9/11, what would happen to us today?
So, yeah. That says it all. UnSub-Zero 00:14, June 5, 2012 (UTC)
More Mass Murder TalkEdit
Once AGAIN you fail to see the Wikia's rules concerning about what makes a mass murderer a mass murderer! The definition isn't just about the murder of 4 or more people, it has to be about the targets and the motivation. Killing people just to get them out of the way or to eliminate loose ends easily doesn't qualify as motivation for mass murder. The killings have to at least be disorganized and extremely violent if one should be qualified as a mass murderer. Chris Shelton, The Militant Islamic Society, Cally's Tribe, and The New York Terrorist Cell killed 4 or more people, sure, but these acts were planned beforehand, there were specific targets, and it was all organized. If their crimes were to be mass murders, they would've gone for more than their targets, they would've gone for everyone at the location concerning them, like the academy for Shelton or the hospital for the terrorist cell.
I don't know how many times I have to explain this. You don't have to accept the fact that these rules are true, but you MUST accept the fact that these are the Wikia's rules and they're here to stay. A refusal to do so will result in a complete loss of editing rights. UnSub-Zero 03:49, July 14, 2012 (UTC)
The reason I say that Daniel Rohrbough was shot twice with Klebold's TEC-DC9, not once with Klebold's shotgun, is because I have seen Daniel's autopsy reports on Acolumbinesite.com, all of which are legitimate. Acolumbinesite.com is probably the most reliable source of information about the incident at Columbine; all of its information is legitimate and truthful to the bone. If you're not convinced, here are the links to some of the autopsy reports. Hopefully you'll be able to understand the terms.
- The final autopsy summary
- List of all 13 victims, the individual causes of their deaths, which shooter shot them, etc.
- The autopsy reports don't say that Klebold shot Daniel in the leg along with Harris. It says that Harris was the only one who shot him in the leg. ...Before I make anymore edits, I still want to know where you get your information. I wish to know this source's reliability. UnSub-Zero (talk) 03:34, September 5, 2012 (UTC)
- I really don't mean to be bother you, but a response would be good. Please? UnSub-Zero (talk) 22:59, September 5, 2012 (UTC)
- I know you're out there. I just want a simple response, please. I'm doing this because, after your tendency to plagiarize Wikipedia articles, the whole Mass Murderer vs. Spree Killer fiasco, and your recent personal comments on non-talk page articles, I really don't trust the quality of your edits. Sorry if that offends you, but that's the truth. I just need a response. Please? Thanks! UnSub-Zero (talk) 03:09, September 7, 2012 (UTC)
Another gentle rage-rantEdit
Hello, again. It's been pleasing for me to know that we haven't had conflicts between each other in some time, just so you know. Unfortunately, that luxury's temporarily gone.
I have read your Lee Harvey Oswald page, and not really much effort has been put into it, truthfully speaking. Under the scenario that you decide to create another Real Life article, please heed my words: PLEASE PUT MORE EFFORT IN THE ARTICLES! I have currently started doing some improvements to it, and honestly, after a little fiasco I waged with another user, my patience is at an all-time low. I do not mean to incur your wrath (which sounds quite hypocritical, I'll admit) but you cannot just let me, or any other users, get dumped with all of the hard work while you idly fret. So, I kindly ask for in the future to see AT LEAST a good attempt at putting effort into articles. Not a bad one, or a complete absence of one. Otherwise, the other users will be left with a lot of hard work and it won't be satisfying for us, or for you.
Can I join in? This is the third time I've had to fix an article you've put together. The first two times were the Columbine and Timothy McVeigh articles, which you mostly copied and pasted from other sources such as Wikipedia. And now there was the Lee Harvey Oswald, which was practically empty. I've put together a decent Background section, but there is more work to be done on the Shooting and Aftermath sections (the Aftermath part will cover the Warren Commission, the later fates of the people involved, etc.) This wiki has certain standards and part of that is NOT just copying and pasting from other sources. So please: make an effort. --Jpx400 (talk) 22:09, May 16, 2013 (UTC)